Agility Pack Demo

Justin

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We're getting close to releasing the Agility Pack but wanted to first release a Windows demo to ensure everything looks good. Please give this version a try and let us know if you spot any issues. Assuming everything goes well we should be able to release the Agility Pack (and version 2.1.2 of the character controller) this week.

Windows Demo Download: https://opsive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AgilityPackWindowsDemo.zip
 
Hi, Justin, here are my review.

1. Controls:
Controls are a bit difficult and awkward for some abilities and the followings are my expectation when I first tried.

* Dodge: It's really difficult to both aim and press jump while moving at the same time. I think simple double click on the move key will be much better and intuitive.

* Vault: I expect to press jump to Vault. Pressing F to Vault is a bit odd. Players will press Jump almost certainly.

* Hang: While in Hang, I expect Jump to detach from the Hang, but it doesn't do anything. I expect Hang to move up/down by arrow key but moving down doesn't.

* Ledge Strafe: I expect pressing up/down key to move the character to moves toward the direction the camera is facing.
And I can't Jump out of Strafe.

2. Bugs.

* Crawl: pressing shift-jump will make Crawl to move really fast.

* Hang: When in Hang downward, it misses the Hang and it shows hands in mid-air.
Hanging in the corner seems to have more problems.

* Ledge Strafe: Enter Strafe and immediately get out of Strafe will result to Skating.

* Vault: Vault height seems bit low. If you can just Jump over it, Vaulting seems a bit odd. Vault is for objects you cannot normally jump over.
If we want to be more clever, we can use moving speed to Vault instead of jump on certain height(~20cm below the max Jump height). For example, you are moving slow or just starting moving and jump, Vault would be better than Jump even if you can Jump because Jump, in this case, will look like a bunny hop.

3. Others.
It's is important that the ability works with the weapon in hands, except Hang. I wasn't able to test it in this build but please support weapon in hands. I think in the case of Balance, and Strafe, you should be able to shoot as well since your hands are free and it will be awkward if you can't shoot.
In the case of Crawl, you should be able to shoot when not moving. In this case, lay down belly-flat and shoot.


4. Question.
Can Ledge and Balance be used for Hang as well? As a matter of fact, support Hang wherever possible if there is something you can grab on to.
It seems like Ledge, Balance can be used for Hang and once we have Hang, users will expect that they can hang everywhere.
I thought you said the ability doesn't require special setup for the level and I was very surprised if it's doable. But seems like it requires either trigger or layer setup. This will reduce the adoption quite a bit as it requires too much work to set up, especially Hang. I guess it's not easy to auto-detect and that's why I said it will be really awesome if it doesn't require any setup. If it's impossible, I probably wouldn't add Hang in my game at all. I can already see troubles that users will not stop asking why you can hang here but not there.

Thanks.
 
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Good job guys, vaulting is particularly smooth (and something I've been waiting for the return of since the old version). The Hang ability is animated well but moves a bit too slow (can easily be altered I imagine).

Will we get the option to use the dodge ability without having to lock-on to an enemy? And will we be able to use weapons while crawling?

Thanks

By the way a bug was discovered: I was able to hang on to nothing.
 

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nice, thanks,

(caveat - testing on rubbish pc)

suggestions:

- I think i agree re. lock on dodge being awkward.
- I find it 'up' is move from hang to higher hang but down is drop/jump away, feels like down should be drop to lower and f (or equivalent/or jump) should be drop/jump away (ie. so jump/f is start and end whole acrobatics process?).
- i think you should be able to drop from a ledge strafe to a hang? see Chris' point 4 above, i agree.

issues:

- you can climb up onto a ledge even if it is little more than a ledge (it should switch to ledge strafe somehow), eg. here:

1025

- i managed to bug out by pressing 'up' out of hang here (could eventually get out by turning and pressing f) - this was reproducible in this spot. it was like it was trying to stand on the ledge and falling etc.:

1027

unknowns:
- what happens with weapons when entering roll, hang etc.. are they all unequipped by default? again Chrisk responded in more detail here.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback! We've been making a lot of changes to take into account all of this. I should have a new build within a day or so.

* Dodge: It's really difficult to both aim and press jump while moving at the same time. I think simple double click on the move key will be much better and intuitive.

* Vault: I expect to press jump to Vault. Pressing F to Vault is a bit odd. Players will press Jump almost certainly.

* Hang: While in Hang, I expect Jump to detach from the Hang, but it doesn't do anything. I expect Hang to move up/down by arrow key but moving down doesn't.

* Ledge Strafe: I expect pressing up/down key to move the character to moves toward the direction the camera is facing.
And I can't Jump out of Strafe.
These have been changed.

* Crawl: pressing shift-jump will make Crawl to move really fast.
Fixed.. Jump was activating which then disabled root motion.

* Vault: Vault height seems bit low. If you can just Jump over it, Vaulting seems a bit odd. Vault is for objects you cannot normally jump over.
If we want to be more clever, we can use moving speed to Vault instead of jump on certain height(~20cm below the max Jump height). For example, you are moving slow or just starting moving and jump, Vault would be better than Jump even if you can Jump because Jump, in this case, will look like a bunny hop.
For vault we used some parkour images to determine the height. The ability doesn't care what height the actual object is as long as your animations match that object.

3. Others.
It's is important that the ability works with the weapon in hands, except Hang. I wasn't able to test it in this build but please support weapon in hands. I think in the case of Balance, and Strafe, you should be able to shoot as well since your hands are free and it will be awkward if you can't shoot.
In the case of Crawl, you should be able to shoot when not moving. In this case, lay down belly-flat and shoot.
Hang, Ledge Strafe, and Crawl will have the weapons unequipped. There isn't anything hardcoded in the ability code that will prevent the animations from being equipped, but because there are so many different weapon types and not all weapon types work with all of those abilities we decided to just disable it in the demo scene. The crawl ability is meant to be more of a crawl rather than a prone, though you can certainly use the crawl code to create a prone.

4. Question.
Can Ledge and Balance be used for Hang as well?
Yes, we've updated the demo scene to show this occurring. The hang ability in the demo scene detects the object by the Object Identifier component, though if you wanted it to be able to hang on any object that meets the cast requirements then that'll work as well. The docs will explain better any setup that is involved.

Will we get the option to use the dodge ability without having to lock-on to an enemy? And will we be able to use weapons while crawling?
Yes, you can. The crawl ability is meant to be more for crawling rather than prone but there isn't anything in the ability code that prevents weapons from being equipped.

- I find it 'up' is move from hang to higher hang but down is drop/jump away, feels like down should be drop to lower and f (or equivalent/or jump) should be drop/jump away (ie. so jump/f is start and end whole acrobatics process?).
We've added a drop down animation to hang. You can also now stop hang with the jump key.

- what happens with weapons when entering roll, hang etc.. are they all unequipped by default?
I've been debating how to ship this asset and I still need to create the build scripts so this could change but right now I plan on just shipping with the assault rifle and the sword in the demo scene. This will give an idea for both melee and shootable. Dodge, Vault, Roll, and Balance all work with weapons equipped, while the other three are going to first unequip the weapon (I explained a bit more above)
 
Great! So is prone going to be added later? I guess prone is what I was waiting for in this agility pack. We don't need to support all weapons-in-hand. For example, it doesn't make sense for a Bow to be equipped but guns are. Or is it going to be supported in a separate pack? You mentioned Tactical Pack before. If so, I guess I'll have to wait for it. Yeah, I can probably do it myself but I have tons of other stuff I can work on and try to avoid duplicated work if I can, you know what I mean. ^^
Thanks.
 
How is the collider control on the vault? at the moment you would probably just jump instead of vault, but vault could be more useful when combined with, eg. windows or with a cover system (eg. exiting cover). I guess i am saying it is not clear, from the demo at least, how useful vault is right now.
Additionally, does vault adapt to the height of the object? thanks
 
How is the collider control on the vault? at the moment you would probably just jump instead of vault, but vault could be more useful when combined with, eg. windows or with a cover system (eg. exiting cover). I guess i am saying it is not clear, from the demo at least, how useful vault is right now.
Additionally, does vault adapt to the height of the object? thanks

It's good for me personally, because I'm not using the jump ability in my game.
 
Is it possible to use dodge as a dash move? Its something i need more than anything else honestly. Creating a 3d fighting pvp game with melee characters and there is no way someone will sit still and let u hit them. Need the dash badly.
 
Great! So is prone going to be added later? I guess prone is what I was waiting for in this agility pack. We don't need to support all weapons-in-hand. For example, it doesn't make sense for a Bow to be equipped but guns are. Or is it going to be supported in a separate pack? You mentioned Tactical Pack before. If so, I guess I'll have to wait for it. Yeah, I can probably do it myself but I have tons of other stuff I can work on and try to avoid duplicated work if I can, you know what I mean. ^^
Thanks.
We would like to do a pack that has more tactical moves such as prone, stealth kill, etc.

How is the collider control on the vault? at the moment you would probably just jump instead of vault, but vault could be more useful when combined with, eg. windows or with a cover system (eg. exiting cover). I guess i am saying it is not clear, from the demo at least, how useful vault is right now.
Additionally, does vault adapt to the height of the object? thanks
When the vault animation starts it disables collisions so the collider can pass through the object. Right now the vault ability doesn't change the height based on the vault object height since it is all animation based. I could see adding this in a future update though.

Is it possible to use dodge as a dash move? Its something i need more than anything else honestly. Creating a 3d fighting pvp game with melee characters and there is no way someone will sit still and let u hit them. Need the dash badly.
Dodge uses root motion whereas for a dash I would just apply the force directly and not rely on root motion. I have changed dodge to be able to work when you double tap though and that part of the code could be useful for creating a dash ability.
 
Its kind of dissapointing that both prone and ladder climbing wont be included in the Agility Pack updates :-(. Ladder Climbing was included in the first iteration of UFPS.
 
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